Tuesday, January 25, 2011

More guns, less guns - you know it doesn't matter, right?

More guns or less guns do not have a direct effect on how safe any society is. This is mainly evidenced by the fact that there is no consistent relationship between the number of guns in a society and the violent firearm-related crime rates. I have seen some narrow scope evidence of some minor correlations between stronger gun laws and lower crime rates, but not enough evidence that proves causation.

There is also no proven significant causation between allowing or disallowing concealed carry and violent crime rates. I'm not a believer in "more guns = less crime" because if I remember correctly, the only major study I've seen done on the issue (John Lott's "More Guns, Less Crime) only showed a very small (a few percent) improvement in crime rates in states that allowed concealed carry over states that didn't. Not enough to prove a significant change, or that allowing concealed carry was the cause.

I simply believe that the number of guns in a society or its gun laws do not effect violent crime rate, and there are many other factors with a more direct effect on the issue.

My reasoning is this: If gun control is increased, it doesn't effect the criminal - It isn't going to make it harder for the criminal to get a gun himself. It's already easy for criminals to get guns on the street even in cities like DC and Chicago with the strictest gun laws. Stricter gun control actually makes it safer for the criminal, because the stricter the gun laws, the more change his victims are going to be disarmed. He's not going to commit MORE crimes because of that fact - he just doesn't have to be as picky of his targets.

If gun control has relaxed and allowed people to lawfully carry concealed, It doesn't reduce crime significantly - The motivations for violent crime haven't changed any (money, money for drugs, criminal gang activity). The criminal that victimizes innocent people just has to be more careful picking his targets.

So basically, tightening gun laws doesn't effect the violent crime rate because if a criminal wants a gun, he can still get one. Loosening gun laws and allowing people to carry doesn't effect the violent crime rate because there are still plenty of targets that are NOT carrying a firearm.

Where tightening or loosening the gun laws has the most effect is the individual that is NOT a criminal intent on harming others. If a person is allowed their right of self defense with a firearm and they are attacked, the overwhelming majority of the time (over 95%) the attacker runs away when faced with an armed victim and runs away without any shots being fired. (For the issue of overall crime rate, do you think the criminal will now give up his life of crime and fly straight, or just be more careful picking his target the next time?)

If gun control is tightened, it discriminates against the people who are NOT a danger to others. Expensive licensing and registration and training requirements, as well as "junk gun" (a misnomer) bans discriminate against the poor. Prohibiting ALL felons and those convicted of "domestic violence" offenses discriminates against those convicted of non-violent crimes and those that have turned their lives around and are obeying the law. Prohibiting those people without criminal convictions such as people with restraining orders against them or people on the "suspected terrorist" list discriminates against people's right to keep and bear arms without any due process at all.

ANY of those "prohibited persons" that WANTS to get a gun and hurt others can always go get one through illegal means. Such restrictions, requirements, and prohibitions discriminate against those that are NOT a danger to others by depriving them of their right of self defense. Tightening or loosening gun laws doesn't effect the overall crime rate for society, but it can make a life's worth of difference to an individual.



  1. I agree. More or less guns does not MAKE anything. But they help.

  2. @Mikeb,

    Evidence, please?

    If gun control really helps, shouldn't there be some evidence? After all, gun control to some degree has been implemented in most countries in the world. Can you provide ANY examples where gun control was introduced and the firearm-related crime rate went DOWN as a result?

    I can show you several cities and countries where it doesn't, and in the few I've found that DO show a decrease, a) NON firearm-related violent crime goes down at almost exactly the same rate, and b) there are other factors involved causing the effect on the crime rate.


  3. Orygunner, The more I read you the more I like you. I believe you're a good guy. But, it seems a bit tricky for you to demand proof where you know none is possible. That's why we need to use our heads and strive to avoid close-minded opinions.

    Your idea, which is certainly not unique to you, that laws don't affect the criminals doesn't hold water. My ideas of proper gun control laws are mainly aimed at the law-abiding because of the very fact that you rightly point out, we couldn't very well expect criminals to obey. Proper laws properly enforced would cut down on the gun availability in the black market which now exists and would therefore disarm some of the bad guys. Gradually through attrition this would increase.

  4. @Mikeb,
    If no proof is possible, what is the reason for trying the same things over and over again?

    You believe that proper laws and enforcement would cut down on gun availability, with no evidence but your own faith, AND you're not even considering the negative side effects of these policies.

    What you're basically trying to say is, "I know this has never worked anywhere else, but we all need to have faith it will work here."

    Can you explain the logic behind trying something that's never been proven to work?



All comments are automatically approved. I will only censor comments in extreme situations, such as spam, extremely offensive language or personal insults.

If you post anonymously, I would appreciate some sort of name to attribute to you. I dislike calling people "Anonymous."